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What do you think about dhtml menu builder's cost?
What do you think about dhtml menu builder's cost?
What do you think about dhtml menu builder's cost?
Way too high! [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Overpriced [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
A bit expensive [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Fair [ 11 ] ** [61.11%]
Just about right [ 5 ] ** [27.78%]
Total Votes: 9
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xfx
post Aug 12 2005, 01:20 PM
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A little bit of history:
DHTML Menu Builder was the first ever product of its kind and at that time I felt that US$35.00 was just about right.
About a month after the program was made public (version 1.5) a group of crackers released a crack and threw me right out of business. Some of you may remember that I even shutdown the site.
Then, we I decided to give it a second try I relaunched the site along with a new version of DHTML Menu Builder but, this time, priced at US$65.00... just to compensate for the loses caused by the crackers.
In version 3.5 I introduced a validation system which makes DHTML Menu Builder virtually uncrackable and, although several groups have been able to release a couple of cracks these cracks will only work with a version of the installer that they distribute the crack with and every time a new version is released they need to update their crack.
Well, this just means that there's no effective crack/keygen for DHTML Menu Builder so, perhaps, there's no reason why we should keep selling it for US$65.00
Besides... the most expensive competitive product costs under US$40.00

So... I was wondering... what do you think?

NOTE: Please take into consideration that upgrades have been free for every one since the release of version 1.5 six years ago!


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Xavier Flix
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MagiCat
post Aug 16 2005, 06:18 PM
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One option would be to lower the price to $35 but not give free updates to those users (though giving them a low cost upgrade such as $10).

This would keep the older users happy because we paid more but get free upgrades while making the program more attractive to people who think $65 is too expensive (which compared to the competition, it is a bit high.)
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Hywel
post Aug 17 2005, 07:18 AM
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Thing is, you've already got the Lite version that's a mere $25.  To me, that's about 15, which is the price of a couple of CDs, an expensive DVD, a few pints on a Saturday.  Compared with what I can offer my clients for very little effort, that's a tiny price to pay, and it's ideal for the home user or small business that perhaps needs to build menus for one or two clients.

My opinion is that you should split the pricing between the regular and DE versions, making the DE the more expensive version due to its huge flexibility.  Perhaps a pricing split of $25, $45, and $65 would work.

Just my opinion, Xavier.  As you know, I've been a happy DMB user for about five years now, and have even been bounced by my ISP for advising people in alt.html to grab it on the "$35 day" a couple of years ago!
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xfx
post Aug 21 2005, 01:49 PM
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I highly appreciate all your comments.
Of course, most of you started using DHTML Menu Builder before I had any competition (I always like to enforce the fact that DMB was the first of its kind) but nowadays there's a huge list of alternatives... most of them free.
I know, and you know, that DHTML Menu Builder is capable of producing *almost* any kind of pull-down/collapsible menu but looks like most newcomers look at the price tag before they look at what they're getting for the US$65.00

Here's what I mean (read the comments at the bottom of the page):
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/944854330/1

I mean... how is it possible that people is comparing DMB with those other products? The only menu-builder that could come close is OpenCube's InfiniteMenus... and that one costs US$400.00

So, the question is: how do you make people understand that DMB costs US$65.00 for a reason... and a very good one.
Reading at those posts I feel like if someone compared Adobe Photoshop with Microsoft Paint.


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Xavier Flix
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JohnM
post Aug 22 2005, 06:35 AM
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See your point Xavier but I think one of the main reasons for this is that very few people, including many so called, web designers and builders, use more than 10 - 15% of the potential of most sophisticated modern programs. How many users are even aware of more than half a dozen of the capabilities of a program like Microsoft Word? So to many there's not much difference between what they would use Photoshop  and/or Paint for. Gradually, over time the quality progs will surface but it is user expectations and ambitions that will do it.
JohnM
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Hywel
post Aug 22 2005, 09:07 AM
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The comments in that review site are a few years old.  The one referring to the Dynamic Drive menu made me chuckle - that's free (or was at the time) because you have to edit the code yourself.  That takes time, which is why a utility like DMB is better value: no coding, faster development, lower costs to the client.

I notice that there are no "testimonials" on the DMB site.
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xfx
post Aug 22 2005, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE
I notice that there are no "testimonials" on the DMB site.

Well, I have this:
http://software.xfx.net/utilities/dmbuilder/webslist.htm

There are over 500 testimonials... but I don't know how many newcomers visit that section.


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Xavier Flix
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Hywel
post Aug 22 2005, 05:56 PM
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Thing is, those testimonials are too short, they may not show the software to its fullest, particularly the DE version, and on the first page six of the ten sites use the same comment.

How about in-depth case studies with web developers/designers that use the software?
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gkitchen
post Aug 25 2005, 02:12 AM
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Personally, I think that charging for upgrades is 'dubious'. I've lost track of the number of abandoned 'old' versions of software that I have on my shelf because I have to buy yet another upgrade to make the thing work as it should do! Maximizer for example! I'm also not really sure of the 'economics' of selling and maintaining a lite version. For light, I always take it that essential features are removed..... If you want to use this product you have to pay even more..... Maybe I'm getting old and cynical.

I am more than happy with the quality of the DHTML Menu builder, the support and the free upgrades with the normal version. At least this pulls you existing customers along and makes support much easier.

As I have developed at least four sites using the menu system I think it would be fair for xFx to charge for this which I think is OK under the current scheme. (At least I think it is or Xavier will send me a bill now!) I would be willing to pay probably around $35 for each additional licence of this type. I would be willing to pay for the Developer version too if I had a need for it.

My twopenny worth!

Cheers
Gareth
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xfx
post Aug 25 2005, 02:27 AM
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Thank you for your comments gkitchen.

The biggest problem with domain-based licenses is that are very hard to control. I cannot think of a way, other than pure honesty from the user, of controlling on how many web sites you have used the program.
Another thing is that I believe that once you purchase a program you should be the owner of what you do with it.

Now, do not worry about the cost of upgrades; they will be extremely cheap and you will be requested to pay for major versions (5.0, 6.0, etc...).


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Xavier Flix
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Hywel
post Aug 25 2005, 09:39 AM
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I agree with gkitchen on the paying for upgrades point - I, too, have ditched software when an upgrade fee applied. However, a man's got to make a living, and it's unusual to find software that comes with free major version upgrades, Open Source excluded, of course. Point releases, yes, but those are often bug fixes or security patches.

I'd feel put out if version releases came out twice a year at a cost of $30 a go, but wouldn't mind paying $10 or $15 when the version includes things like faster rendering, more compact code, new add-ins, and so on. At some point everyone that's going to buy a menu creation utility will have one, so Xavier will be coding HTML for food!
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gkitchen
post Aug 25 2005, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Hywel @ Aug 25 2005, 06:39 PM)
I'd feel put out if version releases came out twice a year at a cost of $30 a go, but wouldn't mind paying $10 or $15
*


So, $65 to purchase and $30 for two upgrades, that's year one. Year two $30, Year 3 $30, Year 4 $30 and Year 5 $30. That's $280 over 5 years! Yikees..... I just hope Macromedia don't go down the same route cos I'd end up being bankrupt! blink.gif
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Hywel
post Aug 25 2005, 02:05 PM
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gkitchen, that's my point. $30 and I'd probably* stick with what I've got unless a release had something I really thought was useful. $10 is not even the price of a CD, so I'd go for that.


* I say probably because I have a strong loyalty to both DMB and Xavier, so if I was feeling flush I would, perhaps, be prepared to splash the cash.
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kaey
post Aug 25 2005, 08:51 PM
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there`s no competition. This is a real powerfull tool. You can build as much menus as you want and the options are gigantic. So your creativity combined with this app is a good, professional and quik comfortable solution in every case! I love it, i purchased, fully satisfied...
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JohnM
post Aug 26 2005, 05:27 AM
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I've been thinking about this thread since it started. There is clearly a lot of support for this program and a good deal of loyalty to Xavier himself. However, having recently retired from over 30 years of self employment I learnt the hard way that you cannot live on this alone. The terrible "economics" loom their ugly head all too soon. I have just read a thread here
This is a typical response from Xavier. This costs him time and therefore money but he supplies the answers for free. What concerns me from his, Xaviers, and our point of view is, can this sort of service be sustained at the present price of the program. Lets face it most support for quality software is charged on an annual basis. You renew your subscription or loose the support. There are often different levels of support, few of which match Xaviers.
Of course we all try to help each other on the forum but anyone of us at any time can stop doing so whenever we wish. There is no obligation like there is with Xavier!
I don't offer an answer to this just making the observation.
Regards to all
JohnM
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jlgarcia
post Mar 12 2006, 01:11 AM
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How much money you can make building a web site just for including a menu like the one's you can make with DHTML Menu Builder?
Wathever, I payed the software just with the first job where I included.... and was very justifiable. Floating menus, made with JavaScript, designed exactly as I wanted, viewable in almost any modern browser, including macs, and very clean, without much clutter in my HTML code... I like clean HTML code and fast downloads, so... the price is right.

I was considering other options before DHTML Menu Builder and they lack control in a lot of design things that are very important to me as a designer.

I was trying to do a specific menu, and only DHTML MB did it, with some little and fast help from Mr. Xavier too... nice tech support. This product is great.

jlgarca

PS I will like some UI redesign, but this is another story smile.gif
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Hywel
post Mar 27 2006, 10:09 AM
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For me, using DMB reduces the development costs for my clients. I've often been caught up in "discussions" about why hand-coding such things is better than using a utility, but I have to explain to my client why their menu system costs what it does. It's far easier to justify two hours on an application-produced menu than ten hours on some (potentially) flaky hand-coded system.

I'd rather spend the time building more robust applications with better usability at better value prices, than wasting money hand-coding the JavaScript.

I think I paid USD60 for my licence, so that makes it the best value software I've bought.
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johca
post Feb 15 2008, 11:57 PM
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I started with a free lite version and immediately upgraded to full purchase version after building my first menu. DHTML menu builder works as expected for my needs.
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